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« Supreme Executive Power derives itself from the masses... | Main | Justice Kennedy, et al to the USA: "It's ok to rape a child, just don't be a spy, or else.....?" »

June 24, 2008

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Comments

Believer

I don't look at the individual passage but the overall trend. Think about it....When we are children, we have a very strict set of rules because that is all we are able to understand in our undeveloped thought processes. There is no variation from those rules, regardless of circumstances. As we grow, we understand that certain circumstances not necessarily negate the rule, but mitigate the breaking of the rule. Then, as we become mature, we understand that you have to look at each individual circumstance, each individual, to determine the truth of the situation. It may look like a rule was broken, but really no intent existed to break the rule.

Now let's move to Christianity....In the times of Moses, the law was necessary because of the immaturity of the followers. As time passes, and Jesus comes, He gives us more difficult commands to follow, not easier. To truly forgive is much more difficult than "an eye for an eye." An eye for an eye is simple revenge and satisfies our fleshly desire for retribution. But forgiveness is hard because it means truly letting go of the demand for a "pound of flesh." Jesus came to bring the law to a new level, rather than let it stagnate and be misused as it was and continues to be.

If God was for the death penalty, how come Cain was only banished and not killed? Seems that if He wanted that to be the response to murder, He would have established the consequence from the very beginning.

Dennis Mansfield

Wen,
How do you deal with Jesus' comment about himself, when he said he did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it?
Den

Believer

And, my friend, by your definition, I should be dead. I don't think that is God's plan for my life....Do you?

Believer

Den,

Didn't Jesus bring the law to fruition and completion? He knew He was to be innocently murdered, yet He did nothing to stop the event nor end the lives of those who were going to end His. As a matter of fact, He died so that those who were killing Him could live!! Many of the apostles and disciples of the New Testament were murdered, yet there is no mention of their murderers suffering the same fate. Think of Saul/Paul....If he had been condemned to death for the death of the innocent Christians for whom he was responsible for the death sentences that were passed down, we wouldn't have most of the New Testament. I still believe that Jesus summed up our responsibility very clearly in the New Testament....Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul (paraphrased) and love your neighbor as yourself. Would you kill yourself? I doubt anyone would who truly loved themselves with the love of the Lord. To me, this means that the death penalty is not from Jesus. And Jesus is part of the God-head, hence, God. Therefore, the death penalty is not from God, under the new covenant of Jesus. But I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

Wen

Dennis Mansfield

Believer (my friend),

The key to being pro-life AND pro death penalty is the understanding that all life is important....in fact, it is SO important and valuable that if a person takes the life of an innocent victim, HIS valuable life, itself, must be surrendered.

Think about this for a minute: You are God. You've just ended a world-wide flood. You've saved 8 people (4 couples. You release them to the "new world" (post flood). It's an important epoch in time. You are going to give them their "marching orders" for this new life. What do you say? Be fruitful and multiply? Sure. Steward the new land? Sure? How 'bout this one: if any one of you sheds innocent blood, YOU WILL BE KILLED. Wow...God's saying this to 8 people who really LOVE each other and have zero possibility of killing any of each other.

The direction for capital puishment is for all of us that followed.

Abortion stops an innocent heart.
Homocide stops an innocent heart.
Manslaughter innocently and unintentionally stops the heart...and therefore, death of the perpetrator should not occur, as the Bible clearly states.

That's how I read it. Where could I be in error? Let me know.
Den

Dennis Mansfield

Julie,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I enjoy reading your blog and find your open heart and your caring attitude enjoyable. I was pleasantly surprised by the piece in the Statesman. I've come to understand that for the past two decades, my life has been lived "out loud"....since that's the case, so should the changes of all of our lives be lived out loud. The amazing power of Jesus was that his very presence challenged religious people.

May my life be lived "in relationship" with Him and not in religion.
Den

Believer

I have issues with both candidates.....How can you be pro-life, yet for the death penalty? That seems vastly hypocritical. I have said it before. I believe that abortion is wrong. But I don't believe that criminalizing abortion helps anyone. It merely creates criminals for actions where before there were none. And it allows for condemnation from man, which helps no one. Anyone who has had an abortion has to be convicted by God that their actions were wrong, not condemned by man. Isn't that living under the law? And as Christians, aren't we supposed to be free from that? And condemnation by man is simply another form of judgment, which we are also not supposed to do. Buy hey, that's just what my relationship with Jesus has brought me to, rather than the religious tenets of someone else's beliefs.

Julie Fanselow

Hi Dennis,

I try to get to your blog fairly regularly, but the Statesman's mention this morning sent me scurrying here to see what you'd written. As always, although we have theological differences, I am touched by your open heart and your open mind.

There's something going on in evangelical America. I was listening to the Ed Schultz Show yesterday afternoon when two callers within an hour called in, describing themselves as evangelicals who will be voting for Barack Obama.

I realize you are NOT saying above that you, too, will be voting for Obama. But in this post and others, you identify how many Christians have decided to live a life of fearless service, rather than one of condemning "the other." It seems that many Christians who examine their beliefs and their role in our modern world are concluding that on almost all the issues, Obama meshes better with their values. (Click my name for a long essay from another writer who describes strong ties to Focus on the Family, yet who strongly supports Obama as the best choice for Christians this year.)

Mrs. Sinta, above, shows that many fundamentalists will vote against Barack Obama solely on the abortion issue, and that is their right as citizens. But voters who study Obama's record and his statements about faith, families, and community will see that he is stronger than his opponent on many of the things evangelicals seek in the name of Jesus, including an end to poverty and caring for God's environment.

If you haven't already, I'd urge you to read Obama's 2006 speech on his own faith journey and how it's impacted his public life.

http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynote_address.php

Thanks again, Dennis. I look forward to your continued commentary as this election unfolds, and as you watch President Obama seek a huge God in his new role next year. :)

Dennis Mansfield

I understand your position. It's healthy to be able to respect other people's opinions and STILL think for yourself, isn't it?

When you think of President Reagan's appointments to the Supreme Court of Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy the opposite case can well be made of any future appointees from a liberal President.

Den

Dennis Mansfield

I understand your position. It's healthy to be able to respect other people's opinions and STILL think for yourself, isn't it?

When you think of President Reagan's appointments to the Supreme Court of Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy the opposite case can well be made of any future appointees from a liberal President.

Den

Mrs. Sinta

I respect Dr. Dobson greatly, but I plan to vote for McCain since he is the only anti-abortion candidate for President. I believe that this time Dr. Dobson is misled.

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